# NATO's Warning: Without Civil Society, We Will Fail

- Source: Nordic Defence Sector (https://nordicdefencesector.com)
- Canonical URL: https://nordicdefencesector.com/en/article/marc-lobel
- Published: 2026-06-14
- Author: Johan Martelius
- Type: Perspective (opinion/analysis) · Country: sweden
- Language: en — machine translation from sv; the sv version is authoritative: https://nordicdefencesector.com/sv/article/marc-lobel.md
- Also available in: de (https://nordicdefencesector.com/de/article/marc-lobel.md), dk (https://nordicdefencesector.com/dk/article/marc-lobel.md), es (https://nordicdefencesector.com/es/article/marc-lobel.md), fi (https://nordicdefencesector.com/fi/article/marc-lobel.md), fr (https://nordicdefencesector.com/fr/article/marc-lobel.md), it (https://nordicdefencesector.com/it/article/marc-lobel.md), no (https://nordicdefencesector.com/no/article/marc-lobel.md), pl (https://nordicdefencesector.com/pl/article/marc-lobel.md)
- Tags: nato, shape, västervik drone science park, uas forum, supreme headquarters allied powers europe, french armed forces, foreign legion, eu, un, marc lobel, civil-military cooperation, fremde legion, european union, united nations

> Brigadier General Marc Lobel, Chief of SHAPE J9 within NATO, describes how modern military forces are deeply dependent on civil society's infrastructure and how this places new demands on planning and preparedness. He emphasises the importance of integrating a civil dimension into NATO's defence plans and coordinating these with member states' own preparedness plans.

![Marc Lobel, head of NATO SHAPE J9 during UAS Forum 2026.](https://imagedelivery.net/XO8UY-c6-LfWgEjQsN8IQw/18771bb0-7dc7-4237-3435-e500f0377600/public)
*Marc Lobel, head of NATO SHAPE J9 during UAS Forum 2026. · NDS*

**In early May, *[Västervik Drone Science Park](https://nordicdefencesector.com/press/v-stervik-drone-science-park-ab-vdsp)* (southeastern Sweden) hosted this year's edition of UAS Forum. Over two days, the event brought together leading expertise in the Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) field to discuss and demonstrate developments in the area. Several presentations were held by representatives from both the defence sector and the civilian sphere. NATO also had representation at the event.**

Brigadier General Marc Lobel is a French officer with more than 20 years of experience from positions within NATO, the EU, and the UN. He has previously served as a commander within the French Foreign Legion's 2nd Parachute Regiment.

Today he serves as head of Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) J9, which is responsible for civil-military cooperation within NATO and with other international partners such as the EU. Lobel explains that an important part of his role is to ensure that the civilian environment is taken into account in planning and operations.

The background to this need is the fundamental shift in recent years, from operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Kosovo, countries outside NATO, to preparing for a collective defence scenario. When that might occur is beyond both Lobel's and NATO's control, but he argues that they must be ready to respond wherever such a scenario unfolds.

"And that means we must be ready at all times to meet it. It is not like in Braveheart, where the blue and red sides meet in the middle of an empty field and fight. If it happens in Europe, there will be around one billion civilians in the middle," he says, as we settle into the spring sunshine at Gränsö Castle, outside Västervik (southeastern Sweden).

He goes on to describe the military dependencies that exist, and will continue to exist, on civilian society. Infrastructure, networks and connectivity, air traffic, and maritime shipping are all examples of areas where the military relies on civilian actors. As a consequence of disarmament, he argues that NATO currently lacks the military capacity required to transport troops, and must instead rely on private companies.

"That is precisely why it is my job to bring in that information about the civilian environment, and to ensure that what we plan can actually be carried out within that same environment."

He continues:

"To visualise my work: we have team blue and team red on either side. But in the middle there is an environment that we are very strongly dependent on. We call it team white, and we need to be able to work with that middle element in a more structured way," he says.

Part of the job therefore involves studying and analysing the functions of civilian society, and understanding what vulnerabilities may exist in the event of a crisis. He highlights the fact that every nation has civilian contingency plans for crises such as terrorist attacks or earthquakes, while lacking a civilian plan for war.

"That is why we work with all 32 member states to integrate that kind of thinking at a strategic level, and we ensure that they are aligned with NATO standards. It is an ongoing effort involving a great deal of dialogue with authorities and governments," he says.

**So you want to change the mindset around civil preparedness by creating a new framework?**

"Yes, in the long run we want to see a changed mindset. But I believe that you in the Nordic region are further ahead than many European countries. You stood on your own feet and needed to be prepared for everything, and that also means a better overall understanding of what total defence (Totalförsvar) means, I think."

Lobel compares today's preparedness with that of the Cold War. He argues that today's military is to a greater extent dependent on civilian society for logistics and transport, whereas during the latter half of the 20th century there was greater military capacity to handle logistics independently.

"After the end of the Cold War, we began to disarm instead. In practice, we traded away much of that capacity, planning instead to use civilian lorries and trains for troop transport," he says, and continues:

"Slowly but surely, we have ended up where we are today. For example, with a military that is dependent on civilian data centres and internet cables to function."

Looking at the war in Ukraine, it becomes clear that infrastructure is constantly targeted by the enemy. But he argues that lessons can also be drawn regarding how it should be protected.

"It is very clear how fundamental it will be to protect our own infrastructure," he says.

**I imagine that deploying air defence systems across all of Europe is not a viable solution?**

"We would then need to spend around 90 per cent of the state budget on defence, and I do not think anyone wants that. So no, it is not a sustainable solution," he says.

Lobel also raises the cable breaks discovered in the Baltic Sea, which prompted the NATO operation [Baltic Sentry](https://nordicdefencesector.com/sv/article/nato-forstarker-narvaron-i-ostersjon-sverige-bidrar). He argues that infrastructure needs to be protected, but also points out that large companies are good at protecting their own operations, sometimes better than the state itself.

"Generally speaking, large companies have an enormously good grasp of what is happening around their cables, and they have the capacity to defend them independently. Sometimes they are probably even better than us, and the military cannot do everything at once. It is clear that the war can only be won if the defence sector cooperates with the civilian sphere," he says.

**What do you hope to take away from this year's UAS Forum?**

"It has become very clear, very quickly, how drone use is shaping warfare. It is not only about kinetic effects, but also how drones can be used to facilitate logistics and similar functions. At the same time, one needs to understand drones in order to defend against them, and that applies both militarily and as a society. There is a great deal we can learn there," says Lobel.

**What will be the most important thing to implement going forward?**

"I genuinely hope that we manage to build a clear understanding of the civilian environment in which we may come to fight. If we do not, I am convinced that we will fail," he says, and continues:

"But if we succeed, we will have a more deterrent NATO. A united NATO that signals it is ready to meet a war at every level of society, governmental as well as civilian," says Marc Lobel in closing.

## FAQ

**What is Marc Lobel's role within NATO and SHAPE J9?**

Marc Lobel is a Brigadier General and Head of SHAPE J9, Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, responsible for civil-military cooperation and strategic coordination within NATO. His central task is to ensure that the civilian environment is taken into account in NATO's planning and operations. He has more than 20 years of experience from positions within NATO, the EU, and the UN. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**Why does Marc Lobel consider civil preparedness to be critical to NATO's collective defence?**

Lobel emphasises that a collective defence scenario in Europe would involve approximately one billion civilians in the midst of conflict. The military is heavily dependent on civilian infrastructure, networks, air traffic, and maritime shipping in order to function. He notes that NATO currently lacks the capacity to transport troops without civilian actors, making civil preparedness a strategic necessity. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**How does Marc Lobel describe the difference between the military's dependence on civil society today compared to during the Cold War?**

During the Cold War, the military had greater capacity to manage logistics independently, but following the end of the Cold War this capacity was scaled back. Instead, plans were made to use civilian lorries and trains for troop transport. Today, the military is dependent on civilian data centres and internet cables in order to function, which Lobel describes as a gradual shift with significant consequences. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**What does Marc Lobel mean by 'team white' in his description of civil-military cooperation?**

Lobel uses a metaphor involving team blue and team red to describe military counterparts, while team white represents the civilian environment upon which both sides are heavily dependent. He argues that NATO needs to work in a more structured manner with this middle element. Without a functioning white sector, he is convinced that NATO will fail comprehensively in any future defence scenario. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**Why did Marc Lobel participate in UAS Forum 2026 in Västervik?**

Lobel participated in UAS Forum 2026 in Västervik after receiving an invitation, despite initially reflecting on the connection to his work on civil preparedness. During the event, he quickly recognised how drone use is shaping modern conflicts, not only through kinetic effects but also in terms of logistics. He emphasised that the civilian side has a great deal to contribute in the field of drone technology. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**What lessons does Marc Lobel draw from the war in Ukraine regarding infrastructure protection?**

The war in Ukraine clearly demonstrates that infrastructure is constantly targeted by the adversary, but also provides lessons on how it can be protected. Lobel highlights that large companies often have better knowledge of their cables and greater capacity to defend them than the state itself. He specifically mentions the cable breaks in the Baltic Sea that prompted NATO's Operation Baltic Sentry as a concrete example. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

**How does SHAPE J9 work with NATO's 32 member nations to strengthen civil preparedness?**

SHAPE J9 works with all 32 NATO member nations to integrate strategic thinking around civil preparedness for war, not only for crises such as terrorist attacks or earthquakes. The work involves ongoing dialogue with authorities and governments to align national plans with NATO standards. Lobel highlights that the Nordic countries are further ahead than many European nations, owing to their tradition of total defence thinking. Last fact-checked: 2026-05-11.

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